Thanks for all the great information. This article was very useful on my most recent purchase. Sorry for the long book but tends to be my style of sharing. Hope others get some use out of my lessons learned. Killing (literally, dried out, burned, inedible) a thousand dollars or so of briskets over the last 20+ years should help some save a little pain as they are stepping out.
The digital controller has a temperature dial (180 F to 400 F), shutdown cycle setting and an on/off switch which is very basic. Compared to the Camp Chef, it misses out on bypass startup button, food probe, feed button, lo smoke/high smoke settings and most importantly access to the fuse. In order to change the fuse in the Traeger, you’ll have to remove both screws on the digital controller and pull out the controller.

Just started shopping around for a pellet smoker. Am also going to need a new gas grill soon. Stopped in at the local BBQ supply store today and they showed me the Memphis Pro and said it would function well for both smoking and cooking steaks/burgers. Price point on that one is pretty high. Would any of the others reviewed above offer similar functionality? Do you have a recommendation of which will work well for both functions? I live in KS so kind of like the idea of sticking with the local guys from Yoder, but Fast Eddys in OK isn’t too far away either. Thanks.


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There are no food probes with this controller as there are on the MAK Pellet Boss, and the controller is mounted to the surface with two screws and no gasket so I fear rain could get into the electronics, but after more than a year of sitting out without the cover in rain and snow, the controller on the IPT I tested is still working fine. Ortech recommends covering your smoker.

Hey Ben – thank you for your comment. From a retail user standpoint, I think you’d be happy with either a Yoder or FEC. I really like the PG 500 for the purpose that you’re looking at. Best of both worlds it seems the more I’m looking at it. You can see how they approach grilling steaks in this video. You can incorporate the use of GrillGrates in either pellet grill. Both companies make their units in the USA. Both have great reputations. I’m just partial to Cookshack’s pellet smokers over Yoder as I know more folks who use them.
Wood pellet grills are a great addition to any home because they combine everything you love about a smoker with a standard grill. Depending on the model that you buy, you can make smoked dishes like brisket and sausage at the same time that you make burgers, hot dogs and other dishes on the grill. These grills are great for family dinners in the summer and for parties and special occasion celebrations.
I believe the little Green Mountain Davy Crockett is the best portable pellet smoker currently on the market. Surprisingly, many of the portables out there still have an antiquated LMH controller, while Davy Crockett employs Green Mountain's advanced digital touch-pad controller, with an integrated meat thermometer that lets you check internal meat temp with the flick of a switch. Furthermore, it includes adapters to run the electronics from your car battery or cigarette lighter. And Green Mountain is aggressively—ahem, hello, price cut—promoting its WiFi capabilities, which enable you to monitor Davy Crockett from your smartphone or laptop.
When it comes to construction, few companies can beat Traeger. Its grills come with construction features like cast-iron grates with a clear and nontoxic coating that prevents food from sticking to the grill and fireboxes made from a similar material. Though Pit Boss grills feature similar elements, many look flimsy, and most will not keep up with your grilling and smoking demands.
We have reviewed the best pellet smokers on the market today after doing our extensive comparative research. However, there were some hidden gems that could not make it to our top 10 product list because of one reason or another e.g. due to their high prices, unavailabilities in some regions, and other factors. Also, some just failed to get in our top 10 list only because it was a top 10 list and not a top 20 list. Regardless of the reasons, here are a few honorable mentions that failed to make it to this top 10 best pellet smoker review, but are still worthy in their own rights:
Warranties are an important part of purchasing a new pellet grill because it assures that the manufacturer stands behind the build quality of the product.  It’s just like buying a new car – you want a warranty that will cover the costs of a repair if something happens to go wrong after buying. Depending on the pellet grill that you buy, there is a wide range of different warranties that are included. Cheap pellet grills will sometimes include a short-term, limited warranty that covers next to nothing. A quality manufacturer will be willing to add some years onto their warranties and cover all the components you’d expect (for example, Grilla Grills offers a 4-year warranty with VERY little fine print on the popular Silverbac model). So, if your cheap grill magically makes it past its warranty date unscathed and then something happens to it, you will be left paying out of pocket for the costs of fixing it or replacing parts. By comparison, pellet grills that have a lifetime or long-term warranty will give you more peace of mind rather than worrying about how you will pay for the next component that malfunctions or breaks suddenly.
Hello Mark! Thanks for commenting here. The Kalamazoo Hybrid Grill looks like a BEAST! If you can swing it, I’d go for it. I truly enjoyed cooking on the Memphis Grill, which is to date the most high end pellet grill I’ve used. It offered a nice blend of professional grade convection with the wood fire taste of the pellets. The Kalamazoo hybrid really does seem to offer one step beyond with the addition of charcoal and wood chunks. I see that Derrick Riches of About.com stands behind the Kalamazoo brand. You’re hard pressed to get a better endorsement of a grilling product than that! Keep me posted at kevin@bbqbeat.com and let me know how your search goes! 🙂

This is the second one I have received as the first one was a lemon. The first one worked great the first 3 times I used it, but then I started getting "Err" message, as well as an overheat message randomly that would not go away. I returned it to Amazon and promptly received a replacement. I have used this one heavily for 7 days now and have had no problems. I will check back in in a couple weeks with my results. It is very well constructed, holds its temperatures well and cooks pretty evenly. I have smoked/grilled ribs using the 3/2/1 method, made stuffed hamburgers, a whole chicken, and a porterhouse steak so far. For the price you cannot beat it. The searing option where you can open the heat shield/drip tray to expose slots directly over the flame is great for cooking steaks and a nice option that you don't see on other models. The removable side tray is also nice for bringing out your meat and placing your finished product on it. The bottle opener is weird...u have to really put the bottle at an angle to open and you lose part of your beer....but it looks cool...lol. A few tips: Cover the heat shield/drip tray with new tin foil each use or else it is almost impossible to clean it. Make sure the knob is in the off position before plugging it in and wait for the numbers to stop flashing before adjusting the temperature. Always start out in the smoke position until it is smoking and a a flame has started, then turn it to your desired temperature(about 5 min). Vacuum out the firepot and inside of the barrel every other use. Most importantly....use this thing as much as possible in the first 30 days to make sure it is functioning properly so if you do have problems you can return to Amazon. I love Amazon. As soon as I clicked on 'Return' and printed the free return shipping label, they had already ordered me a new one and I had it in 3 days!!! In case you would have to return it, mark your boxes that everything came in and take pictures of how it was packed. Took me over 2 hours to pack this thing back up. Most importantly....use this grill as much as you can in the first 30 days to make sure it is functioning correctly, otherwise you will have to deal with Pitboss ...paying your own return shipping and replacing parts on your own.Also don't forget to register your grill right away on the Pitboss website, in case you have problems after the 30 day Amazon window. Checkout the Pitboss website for their recipes....some of them are quite good...the bacon wrapped asparagus tastes just like Carrabas. Just sprinkle some balsamic vinegar on it after grilling. The Pitboss spices/rubs, while expensive are very good. The sweet heat is good on anything and the mandarin habanero is amazing on wings. I sprinkle and toss after cooking. Good luck !!


The biggest cleanup issue is the buildup on the heat deflector under the cooking grates. You'll need good gloves and an apron. On most models, a thorough cleanup means a 30 minute process of taking out the greasy grates and the gooey deflector plate, scraping them and washing them. You should do this when the carbon and grease cover the deflector plate. Stainless parts can go in the diswasher, but I wouldn't do it. That grease is like tar and it could get all over the insides of the dishwasher and hang on for dear life. I use a handheld steamer like the Steamfast SF-320 Portable Steam Cleaner shown here.
With 341 square inches of cooking space and a digital control board that sets the temperature from 180 to 500 degrees, you’ll be cooking whole meals in this grill, even though it’s the smallest model that Pit Boss makes. It will hold up to a dozen burgers for parties, or a chicken and vegetables for the family dinner. When cooking is done, the porcelain coated grill grates are easy to clean.
Let's just say I really love to cook! Especially BBQ. I've had the YS640 a couple months now and can't say enough great things about it! I've grilled ,smoked and high temp roasted with excellent results! After week's of comparing and watching videos I know I made the right decision. There's just no comparison to the Chinese makes and the over priced stainless steel models. I considered the MAK smokers but at double the price couldn't justify it. For the price and USA build quality there isn't anything that can touch the Yoder!

This cooker is still the best value for the dollar for pellet grills I have been looking again for a larger rig, but haven't found one better. If you are looking for an entry level pellet grill this is the one you want. Don't be discouraged by the reviews that talk about leaking smoke or not sealing well because it does leak smoke everywhere. Look at the pic I attached to my review you can see it for yourself it does, but isn't it silly to buy a smoker that doesn't smoke. If you ever go to a BBQ competition you will see most of their smokers leak smoke also.
As a new and nervous cook or just a busy one, it is always a struggle to get the results you want without having to tend to a grill or stovetop all day long. Luckily, Pellet Grills offer a convenient solution. These foolproof devices allow you to truly set it and forget it. Whether you crave perfectly grilled spare ribs or smoked pork butt, Pellet Grills allow you an unprecedented degree of control over the temperature and cooking style you want. What’s more, Pellet Grills are a terrific way to infuse your food with the real flavor of wood smoke, whether it be hickory, mesquite or maple. Unlike gas grills, the flavor is right there in the fuel with wood-pellet grills.
Warranties are an important part of purchasing a new pellet grill because it assures that the manufacturer stands behind the build quality of the product.  It’s just like buying a new car – you want a warranty that will cover the costs of a repair if something happens to go wrong after buying. Depending on the pellet grill that you buy, there is a wide range of different warranties that are included. Cheap pellet grills will sometimes include a short-term, limited warranty that covers next to nothing. A quality manufacturer will be willing to add some years onto their warranties and cover all the components you’d expect (for example, Grilla Grills offers a 4-year warranty with VERY little fine print on the popular Silverbac model). So, if your cheap grill magically makes it past its warranty date unscathed and then something happens to it, you will be left paying out of pocket for the costs of fixing it or replacing parts. By comparison, pellet grills that have a lifetime or long-term warranty will give you more peace of mind rather than worrying about how you will pay for the next component that malfunctions or breaks suddenly.
This cooker is still the best value for the dollar for pellet grills I have been looking again for a larger rig, but haven't found one better. If you are looking for an entry level pellet grill this is the one you want. Don't be discouraged by the reviews that talk about leaking smoke or not sealing well because it does leak smoke everywhere. Look at the pic I attached to my review you can see it for yourself it does, but isn't it silly to buy a smoker that doesn't smoke. If you ever go to a BBQ competition you will see most of their smokers leak smoke also.
The temperature control unit is easy to use and relatively good. To start it, all you have to do is push one button.When it comes to the unit itself, the REC TEC RT 680 is, in general, thick and well built. Unfortunately, the reported temperature can differ from the actual temperature due to airflow inconsistencies inside the cooking chamber. The maximum temperature this grill can reach is 500°F.
The Camp Chef Griddle FG-26 is well-suited for cooking for larger groups. This Two Burner Griddle is made from heavy gauge polishe...d steel, and it has sides that are slightly inclined, giving the chef more control over the cooking process and surface. This Heavy Gauge Polished Steel Fry Griddle covers two burners, and it comes with handles for convenient carrying. read more
Pit Boss Wood Pellet Grills are fueled by all natural BBQ wood pellets. The digital control board ignites the grill and allows you to set the cooking temperature from 180° to 500°F. Fan forced convection cooking eliminates the need for a rotisserie and creates a versatile environment for grilling, roasting, smoking, braising, searing and baking. The 820 features a Flame Broiler as standard; this adds the option to grill directly over an open flame when direct heat is needed. The Pit Boss 820 features a large 820 sq. in. total cooking surface: 580 sq. in. main and 240 sq. in. removable upper rack. With complete structural strength and durability, the Pit Boss 820 is made to last.
Z Grills is a lesser known manufacturer and a great low-cost alternative to the more expensive Traeger grills. Their pellet grill is a sturdy, heavyweight model with a roomy 500 square inches of cooking space and an electronic feeding system for fuel pellets. An additional warming rack provides additional space for cooking at lower temperatures. Furthermore, Z Grills also ensures their product with a generous 3 years warranty.
We are going to take the guesswork out of it for you. Here at Grills Forever we have seared, smoked and grilled on grill after grill so you can have the latest information on what smokers are the best pellet smoker grills. These best pellet smokers can sear and cook the most delicious foods, they are easy to control and convenient to use. We took all these features and more into consideration while compiling the top 10 wood pellet smoker review.
UPDATE 8/27 - This grill is still performing flawlessly. No error messages, maintains temperatures. I have made homeade pizzas and strombolis on a pizza stone and it actually makes them better than in the oven. Its like a restaurant wood fired pizza. I made a pork butt, beef brisket, bacon wrapped scallops....it just simply cooks everything well. Love my Pit Boss !!
Maintenance is an issue. There are moving parts on these grills. Moving parts eventually break. There is an auger with a motor, and a fan with a motor. There are proprietary electronics systems on these babies. Augers clog. Motors burn out. Electronics have bugs or fail. Especially when exposed to rain, snow, hot, and cold. When they fail, will the manufacturer have a replacement part?
Food not cooking evenly or at desired times: It’s worth checking out the health of the fans in your pellet grill. Usually, if the fan is unable to distribute the heat properly throughout the whole smoker, these problems occur. Fans are relatively inexpensive and very easy to replace. Even if you see the fan working and still getting these problems, it might be that the fan is working intermittently or at slower speeds that it needs to. Have it replaced: it would be the best course of action and won’t be heavy on your wallet.
Bought my Texas Elite 34 Traeger pellet grill last summer at Oshkosh Fly-in. Received it and assembled it with no issues. Began using it and discovered it will not make temperatures above 375 deg F. Most of the Traeger recipes need 400+ deg, so this wouldn't work. Called Traeger. They started sending me replacement parts, first the combustion air fan, then the auger motor, then a digital temp controller. None of these new parts had any effect on the problem. I have probably called Traeger 10 times, finally getting a hold of a second level supervisor named Jessie. He decided to send me a whole burner module; pellet hopper, auger tube, burner bowl, fan, controller... everything in one assembly. I installed it and no improvement. I did a time vs temp test for them at their request. They finally agreed it wasn't working properly.

On Tabletop Models: I didn’t include them here because though extensive, this post is more of an overview of a few select makers of Pellet Smokers I think do a fine job with both manufacturing and product support. The one exception is that I did include a link to where you can find the Rec-Tec mini. That’s Rec-Tec’s answer to the smaller, tabletop or tailgating models.
Keep your Pellet Grill and Smoker fired up Keep your Pellet Grill and Smoker fired up with Camp Chef’s Premium Hardwood Pellets. Made of 100% natural hardwood these food grade pellets are an excellent way to add that unique smoky flavor. Choose from 4 distinct flavors. Smokehouse Hickory impart a rich and smoky bacon-like flavor to all meats ...  More + Product Details Close
I purchased a Traeger Elite Grill from the website. I use the grill one time and it worked fine. A couple of weeks later we fired up the grill to cook some steaks. Approximately 10 minutes into cooking the auger stopped working. We had to finish our meal cooking it on the stove. I looked at the troubleshooting guide and the steps needed to be taken. To determine what was wrong you basically needed to dismantle the electric box and auger housing. I am not an electrician Nor a mechanic and feel this is excessive for a consumer to have to do.
Travelers – Of course there’s a perfect pellet smoker for you too. It differs from a basic pellet grill in that it’s smaller and much lighter. It has foldable legs, which allows you to easily take it to the car with you. Everyone’s been on a camping or a field trip at some point. In moments like those, grilled food is something delicious and wholesome. I found the right portable pellet grill for you, which thanks to its size and weight is portable.
In 2010, I sprung for a discounted Rainer with $80 in tip money and a pro deal through the whitewater rafting company I worked for. It was an expensive purchase for me at a time when my monthly food budget was around $60. But hey, along with a Roll-a-Table, two chairs I “borrowed” from the rafting company, and my cooler, I had almost a full kitchen that I could deploy from the back of my truck. And the Rainier quickly proved a wise investment.
But if you like the idea of a wood pellet grill, one of the oldest names in wood pellet grilling is Traeger, which developed some of the first units to use this technique three decades ago. Having that name recognition gives Traeger a leg up versus some of its competitors. And for the most part, Traeger’s grills live up to what consumers expect from this established brand, providing good design and longevity. They don’t typically match up with the higher end models currently on the market in terms of precise cooking temperatures, but Traeger is a nice mid-range product with several price points available.
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I have a Traeger Texas 34 Grill I purchased in January. It worked well for a short stint (1 or 2 sessions) and now will not get to the desired heating temperature, above 400. I have called Traeger and they have sent me multiple parts (2 new controllers/probes/fans) to replace in it, on my own time. Still not working. Upon calling them they said they could not send me a new grill because I purchased from Amazon. They said I needed to contact them. A $900 investment is essentially useless now. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT.
Pellets are made from different woods, each of which imparts a distinctive flavor to the meat. Hickory, oak, maple, alder, apple, cherry, hazelnut, peach, and mesquite are among the flavors available. For more about pellets, read my article, The Science of Wood. There is a pretty good forum for people who have pellet cookers at PelletSmoking.com and of course our Pitmaster Club has a lively discussion on them with many active users.
Rec Tec has always been known for making advanced Rec Tec wood pellet grills coming in at a higher price. However, some of the popular models come in smaller sizes, like Trailblazer 340 or Bullseye 380. However, compared to their capacities and features, the products in our top ten lists would be better choices. So, among its products, the RecTec Bull 700 is the only one that falls in our Honorable Mentions.
For a large-sized smoker, the Camp Chef SmokePro SE delivers excellent, smoky-tasting flavor that even beginners can accomplish. This is largely due to its automatic temperature control features and grease management system, allowing you relax while it cooks for you. With minimal cons (only weight and pellet price), this is a definite hit among professionals and newbies. The SmokePro SE is an unquestionable bang for your buck kind of purchase.
Something you may not have read in other Pellet grill reviews is that there are two key concerns: flavor and fuel consumption. As previously stated, pellet smokers are not known for producing a strong smoke flavor, no matter what pellets you use. Though, some brands can be more pronounced than others. Hardwood pellets provide longer overall burn times per pound than fruit wood pellets. 1oo percent fruit wood pellets will also be more expensive on average.
The completed transaction enhances Vista Outdoor's position within one of the camping market's most attractive categories, complementing its already broad portfolio of 50 brands in shooting sports and outdoor recreation. Wholesale dollar sales in the camping category grew at a 6% Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) from 2010 to 2015 (source: Sports & Fitness Industry Association). Camp Chef's sales growth has been fueled by a strong product development pipeline and user-friendly products.
The initial design by Mr. Traeger consisted of a “classic” drum barrel shaped grill design with a chimney on top. Instead of the firebox, the grill contained a pellet hopper. It used a fan to distribute the heat evenly over the pellets. Unlike the modern pellet grills, the original design didn’t include any auto-ignition features and the pellets had to be lit manually.
This is a fantastic grill for the money that’s dependable for outdoor cooking and smoking (hence its name, “Camp Chef”). It’s not quite 9.9/10 that is the Camp Chef SmokePro DLX Pellet Grill got, but it has more than enough features and benefits to spare to honor the Camp Chef brand (even though at first glance the PG24 and the SmokePro are practically the same units with color differences).

While using and running a pellet grill is child’s play, catching the right offer on pellet grills can be a hassle for consumers who have little to know clue about it can prove a costly bargain. Knowing your facts prior to buying one is always a good a smart idea. My pellet grill review will do the best it can to educate you on the things you need to look out for when purchasing your perfect grill. Here are a few heads-up:
This smoker comes with two cooking settings: hot and fast, and low and slow. Its Digital Elite Controller makes setting the temperature a breeze — all you have to do is turn the dial to your desired temperature, and you can leave it for the rest of the cooking process. This smoker can reach the temperature of up to 450 degrees Fahrenheit. The digital display on top of the grill lets you monitor the heat conveniently.
Customer Service: I spoke with customer service department about 10 times during this process, and every time I emailed or called I received a different person in response to my same issue. This did not feel good as I never got past the ground level in service even asking for upper management. After the initial response to the dented barrel I received a month back order request for a replacement. After this no offer was made to remedy the situation meaning no refund, or any extras were given as a sorry. I had to contact 3 more times (with three different people) asking for upper management before they agreed on making up for the situation. I ended up receiving for "free" a folding front tray. A month and week later I received my replacement barrel only with no lid, and then a week and half later received the lid.
It also has the standardized dial-in digital control with LED readout (not to the point that it has WiFi like the Green Mountain Grills Davy Crockett Pellet Grill, but still quite convenient). However, it’s rated low on this list because of poor quality control. Too many customers ended up with bad Pit Bosses that have inconsistent temperature control (going all the way to 615° Fahrenheit).

It is almost as we have forgotten how to live life the way it should be lived. We no longer have the time to sit back on a summer’s day, and appreciate the show that nature has put up for us. Now-a-days we are so committed to our work, responsibilities and duties towards the external that we often forget that we have our very first priority neglected: happiness. We are so engaged in our daily 9 to 5 routines that we have actually began to take it as a way of living while it slowly drains and strains us away over time. 

This smoker is one totally awesome product. It is more that just a smoker, it is a true convection oven, we have baked bread in it! As for being able to hold the temp for low and slow, wonderful. The beef that I smoked was delectable. I just this week smoked 10 venison loins at the same time; it took 1 hour for the most tender, delicious venison I have ever tasted!
It is different with REC TEC Wood Pellet Grill, here the solid construction is made of high quality materials. On the outside, high temperature powder coat and porcelain enamel finish. While inside, the manufacturers use stainless steel of very good quality for all the major parts. On the official website, we can read that you can find over 40 pounds of 304 stainless steel parts in this grill ( see for yourself ).
Camp Chef's Woodwind Pellet Smoker is a quality smoker and super searing grill wrapped up in one. As I mentioned above, though pellet smokers are often referred to as pellet grills, most have a limited grilling capability at best. To fill this gap, in 2017, Camp Chef introduced its optional LP gas Sear Box, which can be added to any of its current SmokePro pellet smokers. Woodwind is a package deal that comes standard with the Sear Box and sells for about $50 less than a SmokePro with the optional Sear Box. As a bonus, Camp Chef is one of the few brands on the market with an ash-removal system that deposits ash in a cup under the smoke box for easy disposal.

Ninth spot to make it to our compilation of the pellet grill review is the Louisiana pellet grill. It has 2 cooking levels and a total 1061 square inch cooking surface. The Louisiana pellet grill has got porcelain cast iron main grids and porcelain steel removable upper cooking grid. It also has a digital controller centre. This grill weighs around 173 pounds and is made with high quality material that is going to last you a life!
Of course, we recommend our pellets and have proven them to work fantastically with all of our grills, but we would never be short-sighted enough to say that our owners must only use our pellets.  That just seems a bit, well, wrong.  From our testing and customer feedback, the following brands all worked very well:  B&B, BBQrs Delight, Cooking Pellets.com, Lumberjack and Smoke Ring.
Smoking v. Grilling more about the temp you’re cooking at than how it’s heated. Smoking happens below 300F most of the time. The Sawtooth Pellet Grill can get to 550F-600F at the top end so it’s more of a grill at that point that smokes. I’ve grilled burgers and fajitas and other stuff like you would a gas grill. Works great and it’s made in the US!

Do you enjoy hassle and stress-free living? If you want to enjoy the juicy smoked BBQ ribs with your friends and family without feeling disturbed, then the automatic smoker is the top choice for you. The automatic smoker, a pellet smoker, makes for an ideal choice. Do you know why it has it has earned the reputation of the best among all the easy to use smokers? You will find the automatic features incredibly easy to use and this convenient product’s simplicity stands out.
Normally you will get 1- 3 years of warranty for the top pellet smokers from different companies. Traeger will serve you with a 3-year warranty while Camp Chef will give you only 1 year of warranty. Considered this the safe period for your pellet grill, so take advantage. If you own a top quality smoker then you may need not to think of any replacement within 5 years of buying.

From everything I’ve been able to find online, Traeger Pellet Grills appear to be the very first pellet smokers to be offered on the market. Dating back to the early 1980s, Joe Traeger’s company first experimented with using wood pellets as fuel for a BBQ smoker as an offshoot of the home heating furnaces he was selling locally that used pellets. As time passed, a thermostat was added to the equation, and the production BBQ smokers fueled by pellets working in “set it and forget it” fashion was in full force. From this point, several manufacturers of pellet grills began to pop up, with a few key names like Yoder Smokers, Mak Grills, Green Mountain Grills, and Fast Eddy’s Cookshack grills being among the most notable.
One comment I see a lot in various forums like Pellet Heads Forum is that you want as much efficiency as you can get. As with lump charcoal, this means burning as clean of a cook as you can with as little ash as possible. Different pellet mixes will produce differences in what you get in this area, and the cooker you’re using will dictate this to some degree as well.
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